If you have NOT finished the book, do not read any further! As they say - SPOILERS!!
OK, so who was surprised at how it ended? Anyone? Were you relieved or sad for Ishmael? I was relieved!! I did not want him to marry Claudia! What about you all? Right up to the very end I kept thinking, is she going to go through with it?? What a sad sad choice she made!
OK, let's step back a bit to chapter 61, "Envy." What did you think of Brudenell's broad brush at "poor widows" and Ishmael's response? I loved that he saw the justice in what he was doing. I loved Ishmael's quote, "I owe so much to God--so much more than I can ever hope to pay, that at least I must show my gratitude to him by working for his poor!" What a difference in viewpoint from Herman's self-seeking. Herman did not even bother to check on his child all the years he spent growing.
And we find Claudia in the throws of her new life of excess. "Her life of fashionable dissipation was beginning to tell even on her youthful and vigorous constitution." It always does, doesn't it?
What do you think of Brudenell living under the same roof as Ishmael? "The father, otherwise childless, naturally loved the one gifted son of his youth, and loved him the more that durst not acknowledge him." Knowing Herman's character as we generally do, what do you think his response to Ishmael would have been had he grown up to be like Reuben? (Which could have easily happened had Reuben married Hannah earlier on.)
So we find Claudia at her second glamorous ball dressed like royalty and we meet the disgusting Mr. Burghe again. Why is it that some people never get over themselves? He is so wrapped up in hurting Ishmael that he makes an utter buffoon of himself. Thankfully, Ishmael was oblivious to it this time. Didn't you just love the chapter, "Foiled Malice?" I loved Mr. Merlin's responses to both the letter and the man who sent it! What a great character Mr. Merlin is sometimes.
So Ishmael wins his cases and Bee sees the justice in what Ishmael is doing. She sees the poor for the people they are beyond their lack of funds. Her responses to Ishmael are always sweet and encouraging.
What did you think of Ishmael's naiveté with regards to Claudia's feelings for him? Did you think that she would seek his love after all she has shown us of her character? Ishmael's thoughts:
"It is true his heart had been often wrung with jealousy when seeing her with Lord Vincent; yet even then he had thought that her vanity only was interested in receiving the attentions of the viscount, and he had trusted in her honor that he believed would never permit her, while loving himself, to marry another, or even give that other serious encouragement."
Now, tell me ladies, was Claudia's behavior even remotely this pure? She gave the viscount *every* encouragement. How could Ishmael not see this? Do you think he was just blind in love? Would that our own children avoid such pitfalls and blindness in their future choices!
I felt for Judge Merlin, but at the same time, he really did have the power to deny her marriage. If he really had concerns about the viscount as a match, shouldn't it have been his duty to express them? And does he really believe that Claudia loves him? Her response to his question, "Are you happy, Claudia?" is only "I shall be a countess, papa!" And then he presses her further and she says, "Happy? Who is? Who ever was?" How tragic!!
What about the entire conversation with Bee? How could she say the things she said? Good Bee remonstrates with her over and over. "There you will find how little you have really gained by the sacrifice of truth, honor, and purity; all that is best in your woman's nature--all that is best in your earthly, yes, and your eternal life." Bee just puts it out there in every way she can-- knowing full well that she was giving up her own earthly love for Ishmael in pressing it upon Claudia. She truly loves Ishmael, with all her heart, but here she is trying to save Claudia by giving her Ishmael if Claudia will only take him. And even more than that - confronting Claudia with her utterly depraved choice. Did the strength of Claudia's waywardness strike any of you? It was really mind-blowing to me--that this character would take so little stock of her eternal life, to sacrifice even her own happiness for a mere title. It makes no sense to me. What is a marriage without love? How does one give one's self without it?
I felt deeply for Ishmael that he had to hear all that, but I think he really needed to hear it from her own lips. And then he even has to ride with the bride in the carriage! I cannot fathom it. He is utterly self-sacrificing because he knows what this marriage costs the Judge. What a man!
"She was forced by the demon, Pride, who had taken possession of her soul." Those are powerful words. What havoc do we wreck in our own lives by that demon? She even has to apply false maidenly bloom. Southworth really paints Claudia's picture vividly, doesn't she? Not only of her preparation, but of the wedding itself. What do you think the viscount thinks of all this? I notice she does not mention him at all. I wonder, do you think he is just blind to it all? Does he love Claudia, or is Bee right that he really does not?
Ishmael then allows himself to be intoxicated and then passes out in the arbor. This is certainly quite a fall for our Ishmael. It is poor Bee who finds him. "Have I lived to see you thus? Can a woman reduce a man to this? A proud and selfish woman have such power so to mar God's noblest work?" And Bee comes to his rescue, quietly and sweetly, once again. What will become of her love for Ishmael?
"By a woman came sin and death into the world, and by a woman came redemption and salvation. Oh, Claudia, my Eve, farewell! farewell! And Bee, my Mary, hail!"
And that, my dear ladies, is the end of Ishmael! What will happen to Ishmael and all the others in Self Raised?? So now we would love to know your thoughts on these final chapters of this book.
Also, will you join us for Self Raised? If you will be joining us, even if you have already read it, please do let us know! Depending on the response, I will be taking a break of a week or two in order that those of you who wish to order can do so and receive the book before we start it.
Thank you all *so* much for joining us in our first ever HSB Literary Club selection! It was truly a blessing to share this book with you. I hope you will join us for many more!
Jen shares:
It is sad when a great book comes to an end -- luckily, Ishmael is *not* the end. I will be really interested to see how you all respond to Self Raised. I love this second book, but it most certainly takes a new direction that I think will surprise you. It has been a great pleasure going thru this book with all of you. Were any of you, or your children, inspired by some of the character traits in our heroes (Bee, Ishmael, Mr. Middleton, and even kindly Rueben?). I love the Southworth books, she has become my favorite author of all time.
We are so far behind reading Ishmael that if you begin Self-Raised, we'll never catch up. If I were reading by myself it would be one thing, but trying to read it outloud to the children is nearly impossible to read so much each week. At least for me :)
I really enjoyed being a part of the club when we could keep up.
Christine
I thought that Herman's comments on poor widows were right in line with his impulsive, unthinking character. Of course, he is just as impulsive in seeing Ishmael's views once he points them out to him. I liked what you said about what Herman would have thought if Ishmael turned out like Reuben, Kate. Maybe Ishmael will be good for Herman.
I loved the way Judge Merlin handled Mr. Burghe. Doesn't it amaze you that Burghe was welcomed with open arms to this huge event, but it still wasn't enough for him? I would guess that the guest list consisted of the "cream of the crop." He still had to try to elevate himself at Ishmael's expense, though.
I think that either Ishmael has been totally blind about Claudia or he sees what she could be and gives her those characters (which probably amounts to about the same thing). This could be a good trait if he used it to encourage and mentor her. However, it seems that Ishmael deceived himself. Although it was horrible for him, I agree that Ishmael needed to hear Claudia's true self from her own lips.
Bee is my favorite character - she is so sweet and unselfish! Yes, Claudia definitely shocked me during her conversation with Bee. She really showed her true colors, and it was really ugly. I felt so bad for Bee because she really wanted Claudia to hear her and make the right choice.
I don't think that the Viscount really cares about Claudia. Bee is such an accurate judge of character that I trust her judgment. Besides, Southworth made it clear in an earlier chapter that Viscount Vincent saw that Claudia loved Ishmael. I wonder what his motive is - her riches maybe?
The intoxication scene was pretty embarrassing to read, wasn't it? Southworth does a great job at making you feel what other characters are feeling (like Bee in this scene).
I tried to do this book as a read-aloud at the very beginning, but it really didn't work out. We were already reading something else together, so I didn't make much of an effort though. I could see how it would be hard to keep up. I really enjoyed the book club. Thank you so much, Kate and Jen, for all of the effort you put into this!
I have "Self-Raised," so I'll be participating whenever you decide to begin.
I really enjoyed how this book ended. I must say that I was SHOCKED when Claudia shared all her feelings with Bee. I wasn’t expecting her to be so open with all her emotions. And for it to happen with Ishmael hearing it! It really was necessary, though. Apparently, he needed that “slap in the face” to truly understand Claudia’s character. To think—all those years wasted on such a shallow person. I agree with Andrea that Ishmael was blind regarding Claudia—he gave her all those good character traits, simply because he wanted to believe that they existed. It reminds me of a situation I went through a few years ago. We were having a TON of problems with my stepdaughter (17 yrs old). I said to her mother “You can’t trust her (stepdaughter) because she doesn’t have good judgment.” Her mother responded, “No, she has good judgment, she just doesn’t use it.” I was floored that someone would say such a thing, and even more, actually THINK it! I always thought that if we possess a good character trait, then it shows in our actions!
And as I keep giving Herman the benefit of the doubt, Kate’s comment threw me in a different direction and got me thinking. I do have to wonder what Herman would be thinking if Ishmael had turned out to be like Reuben!
As for Judge Merlin, he is such a good person, especially regarding Ishmael. However, where was his head with Claudia? It is almost as if he closed his eyes and hoped for the best, which we know doesn’t happen. Parenting takes WORK!!!! I also have to wonder what he was thinking when the Viscount Vincent was making all of those visits to Claudia. Did he actually think that he wouldn’t pursue her hand in marriage? Let’s see—Claudia turned out to be a shallow, selfish person because he ignored all her snootiness, and the Viscount Vincent married her and took her away to a foreign land because he ignored all their courting activities. Certainly reinforces that we shouldn’t ignore things with our children!
And yes, I do have Self-Raised. I will be around for the discussion on that book as well. Thanks for all your hard work, Kate and Jen! Your comments, as well as everyone else’s, have been extremely enjoyable and thought provoking! I consider this book club to be a blessing to me!
I was a little surprised by the ending - that it was so abrupt, I guess. Nothing like making sure we read the sequel. LOL Although of course I was relieved for Ishmael that Claudia was no longer an option for him, I was indeed saddened by Claudia's headlong rush into a loveless marriage. I think she will find that once in England she is no longer at the top of the social 'food chain' as she was in Washington. That may be a bit of a shock to her pride. Then too, there's the unanswered question of what exactly the Viscount's intentions are, since it sounds like Herman Brudenell will likely be doing some investigating.
I loved the chapters dealing with Alfred Burghe and his foiled attempts to embarrass and discredit Ishmael. Good for Claudia in kicking him out! And this is one place where I actually laughed out loud, I so enjoyed the Judge's clever response to the challenge!! He's a wonderful character. When he allowed Claudia to go ahead into the marriage, despite his own misgivings and her indication that she didn't love the Viscount, I thought that was the fruit of his policy of letting her go her own way and grow as she would. Remember that at the beginning of the story? I couldn't help but think that if he had offered more restraint and direction when she was a child, quite likely she would have been more charitable and wise as a young woman. But she had been given free reign all her life to do and to spend as she willed, how would he now say to her "I will not allow this" - he could have, and as a parent I believe he should have - but he was continuing in the same policy he had followed for something like 20 years. It's clear he regrets it, and I think he will only regret it more as the story unfolds.
Bless Bee, she is a true evangelist with a pure servant's heart. She did her very best with Claudia, and her faithful care of Ishmael in his hour of need. (was anyone else a little surprised that one drink on that occasion could lay him so low for so long? I thought that was a little beyond what I could believe, but maybe it was a larger glass than I was picturing, or a more powerful liquor. LOL)
During the scene where Ishmael overheard Claudia's confession, as painful as that obviously was to him - I hoped that he saw her character for how shallow it really was, that whatever form of love she felt for him, she still utterly scorned him because he had his mother's name. His love for her was naive and blind, and now that he has heard the truth from her own telling, I think he will move on. But oh, the depth to which Claudia has lowered herself - and what surprised me about that was that she had no expectation of even being comfortable with the man she had chosen to marry. If her feelings for him had been kind or even tolerant, I might have been able to understand her willingness to give up on "true love" in order to gain the title she sought, but she utterly loathed this man. And she stated that she knew the cost of her choice might well be eternity, yet she would not hesitate in her sinful folly.
I am waiting for my copy of "Self-Raised" to arrive in the mail, so YES I will be joining in that discussion! I am reading on my own, however, not doing this as read-aloud to my children.
I read Ishmael in five days, and were I not a wife and a homeschooling mother of three I probably would have read it in two. What a magnificent book. Oh the lessons to gleen (or glean) from it's pages. I am an official Southworth fan!!! Thank you Maria for giving this book to me! Now...how do I get my hands on a copy of Self Raised????
My husband and I have finally caught up with you guys. We finished the book on Thursday night. In his introduction, Mark Hamby wrote about Ishmael's one weakness, and boy howdy, Ishmael amazed Darin and me with his weakness for Claudia! After hearing all the nasty things she had to say in her conversation with Bee and STILL loving her! If I had heard that, I am sure it would have taken care of any lingering feelings that I had lying around.
We will definitely be joining you for Self-Raised or FROM THE DEPTHS! (lol so dramatic!) We won't be able to order our book until August, but have already started reading it as we found a copy of it online. But it's not as fun reading at our computer, and we can't (okay *I* can't) wait to get my hands on that beautifully bound book! It's gorgeous! We are looking forward to when our kids are teens and might be more interested in reading it.
So we are getting close to the end of the book. Are you excited to see what happens?
Did you all find it interesting that it was Reuben and Hannah who had the children? I thought that was clever of Mrs. Southworth. Why use extra characters! :+) I also found the change in Reuben towards Ishmael to be somewhat of a puzzle. Did Reuben really think so little of Ishmael? He was Uncle Reuben before he was a lawyer - what would change for Ishmael? Does Reuben just "know his place"? What does Ishmael mean by his response to Reuben? "I am very anxious to advance myself in the world, very ambitious of distinction; but if I thought worldly success would or could estrange me from the friends of my boyhood, I would cease to wish for it." I loved that he did not in any way disown Reuben, but what about the first part? Why do you think he wishes distinction? Is that a good thing?
I thought the whole trial scene was very interesting, didn't you? It seems so different, yet not so much from our own day! The circus atmosphere of the other lawyers was almost too much, but how much worse is it in our own day! "If the glove don't fit you must acquit!" That certainly was a modern circus trial! I really loved how Ishmael defended the mother--he told the truth. How fearful that mother must have been! She could have lost her children to a very unworthy man.
What did you think about Ishmael's summation of the joking lawyer? "Take human nature in general; it can be more easily laughed than reasoned or persuaded in or out of any measure. People would rather laugh than weep or reflect." Those are powerfully true words!! I also love the way she wrote that first sentence. It was written like a song almost.
What did you think of this statement:
"That a lie which is half a truth, is ever the blackest of lies,
That a lie which is all a lie may be met and fought with outright;
But a lie which is part a truth, is a harder matter to fight."
And then we have Miss Merlin's "...anguish of longing that she knew her pride must forever deny..." She very much loves him, but her pride will not allow her to acknowledge it. Here even in his triumph he is, in her eyes, a man without proper parents so he is not to be considered. At least she feels it! Will it change, you think, before the end of the book?
Mr. Brudenell is back on the scene! Did the situation his mother and sisters placed him in surprise you? It was not all that shocking to me. Sad yes, but not too surprising considering their attitudes towards other things. They were on show in Europe, but there form without substance--and money!
So father and son meet. Can you only imagine what went through Herman's mind? "Now the frozen love of years melted and flowes into one strong, impetuous stream towards him--her son--his son! Oh, that he might dare to claim him!" What does this mean? Will Herman again be impetuous to Ishmael's ruin? he has already fought so hard to overcome his place in society. How will Herman fit into it?
I enjoyed the whole tête-à-tête between Herman and Hannah! Couldn't you just see her boiling over and he trying to contain her temper! It was quite comical to me. Could you imagine a man not too much younger than yourself calling you an old woman? Towards the end of their encounter, I did feel a bit of sadness for poor Herman. He really did himself in by his impatience! This last line touched me, "And as he walked thither, how he envied humble Reuben Gray his parental happiness!" I would envy it too had I been in Herman's place.
Drum roll, please! Now you can finish the book! We are going to read all the way through to the end. A *lot* happens in these next few chapters....
Oh, and don't forget to order Self Raised, with free shipping! We will be starting that almost as soon as we finish Ishmael!
forgive my slackerality -- we are waaaaaaaaaay behind. however, since i have already read the book, i remember these chapters and i was pleasantly surprised with how the book and even the tone of the book seemed to change. I am reading several other Southworth books and they do the same. I highly recommend , The Lost Heir of Lithlingow and its sequel, A Noble Lord.
You can get a glimpse of Southworth's sympathy for the poor, for those with no rights, and for the injustice that happens within society during her time period. I wonder if she was an activist. I don't know, but it seems from her books, that she understands the need for a Saviour and for His grace. I sure hope she trusted in Him and that I will be able to hang out with her in heaven.
Sorry again for dropping the ball, my friends. And thank you, my gracious Kate for putting together the last two weeks worth without a single stitch of help
I thought that the twist of the Grays having the children was great! It was so in character of them to help with the children, but it was also a bit of comic relief.
I do think that Reuben just "knew his place" in the way he behaved to Ishmael after his success. Yes, it was worldly success, and he probably hoped it didn't change his character, but I likened the scene to Reuben going to the end of the table and letting Ishmael decide whether or not to bring Reuben up beside him (if that makes sense). Reuben's actions were definitely in character with the humility he always expresses.
It seems that one of the main themes running through the book since Ishmael discovered his parentage is his desire to bring honor to his mother's name. I think that is the main reason he desires distinction. However, Southworth seemed to make it clear in the last set of chapters that his less noble reason is to win Claudia.
Kate, I definitely agree with you about the joking lawyer statement. The same with the half truth statement. That is so true! We are much more easily deceived by statements that have an element of truth in them.
If Claudia is still resisting her love for Ishmael at this point, I have to wonder if she will ever change. What if she does, though? I wonder if she would really be happy with him, or would she regret her lack of title (or whatever it is she is after). Until she is at peace with herself by being at peace with God through Jesus Christ, she isn't going to be truly happy and will always be looking outside herself to fulfill her temporal happiness. Would she really make Ishmael a good wife at this point?
I can't say I was surprised by Mrs. Brudenell and her daughters, but I was beginning to wonder if we were ever going to hear of the Brudenells again before the end of the book! I hope Herman doesn't do anything that would injure his son after all of his success.
I enjoyed Herman and Hannah's exchange too. Hannah didn't spare herself either! She admitted her mistakes.
You really want to like Herman and feel sorry for him, but he is such a self-absorbed character. He knew that Hannah never used his check, but not once did he attempt to find out how his son was doing! Do you think it was an "out of sight, out of mind" type situation? Or was Herman just so busy feeling sorry for himself that he didn't have time to think of anyone else? I wonder what he was doing all the time he was out of the country.
I agree with Andrea—you really do want to like Herman. I couldn’t believe that I was actually thinking that as I read how he helped his mother and sisters all those years. Yes, I actually thought “poor Herman!” Then, when Herman first caught site of Ishmael, the words “Those were Nora’s lips, so beautiful in form, color, and expression,” it all just came back—that summer Herman and Nora spent together, Nora completely trusting him, and then Nora getting reamed out by Mrs. Brudenell while Herman spent the evening visiting with his friends. I couldn’t believe that I actually forgot about how he completely abandoned her! Even though he made all those horrible choices, I believe that he now regrets them. He stood by his mother all these years, and where has that gotten him? Nowhere. But, with Ishmael, if he would have stood by HIS side, look at the happiness he would be experiencing now. It will be interesting to see how all this works out, but I really don’t think that Herman is going to come out with the truth—it would make him look like such I jerk. I think he will just try to be friends with Ishmael. We shall see if I am right! .
And thanks, Kate, for the comment back to me about Claudia. I must admit that I am a little slow at times! It is now crystal clear to me as evidenced when everyone was congratulating Ishmael on his victory. Here was Ishmael, proving to the world his “real power and worth.” He would have been accepted by anyone else as a “gentleman,” but just not by Claudia. How she has closed the door on herself. It’s a shame, but between Claudia and Bee, I would much rather see Bee win the heart of Ishmael! I think it is just a tad too close to the end of this book for that to happen, but we shall see! I have a feeling that Self-Raised is an even better book than this one because Southworth re-uses her characters, and I’ll bet that many of these characters will be coming back!
Another thing that I see as inspiring is that Ishmael holds no resentment over not having a father. He loves his mother through what Hannah has told him, but resentment over anything else is just not there. I think that is great—he seems to have just “let it go.” Sometimes I struggle with letting go when a family member has hurt me or said something totally rude. I do eventually let it go and forgive, but certainly not as quickly as I should.
I feel sorry for Herman as well-he seems to be a lot like Claudia in the fact that he can't seem to find true joy. He was caught up in the 'social standings' of people as well, although I don't believe as much as Claudia. I, too, believe he is now regretting his decisions about Nora and such. Perhaps Nora would still be around had Herman not broken her heart?
But then again, maybe Ishmael wouldn't be who he is today had he grown up in luxury. He wouldn't have had the compassion on the poor that he has because of where he came from. All these things in his life-the childhood, the poverty-all were shaping influences in his life. Without these would he have been the same person with the same amount of character? Ishmael grew in character not just despite his situation, but because of his situation as well.
Oh, if we could be like that! All things happen for our sakes, so that God can be glorified through them. What a wonderful example Ishmael is to that.
Here is a side note...anyone know that they made a movie about this book? I was googling Ishmael Worth, and came up with this link.
http://www.answers.com/topic/hearts-of-youth
It is interesting that in the movie his love interest is Beatrice....anyone know where someone could get a copy of the movie? It would be great to see the differences....
Edited: Its apparently a silent film from 1921...it still would be interesting...
What a wonderful surprise to have Reuben and Hannah looking after those little girls!
I was quite puzzled that Reuben's attitude towards Ishmael was so obviously changed. His referring to Ishmael as "sir" over and over and over again... I didn't think that was realistic, personally. But it came as no surprise at all that Ishmael felt that nothing in their relationship had changed as a result of his own recent successes.
The statements about human nature being more willing to laugh than to weep, and that lies based in truth are the hardest to fight - both so very true. Perhaps even more so in our day than at the time Southworth wrote the book.
I'm anxious to keep reading and find out what might happen now that Herman knows what has become of his child! I like how Andrea worded it - I want to like Herman but his desire to always please others is really a form of self-indulgence and cowardice. I like that he has not revealed his relationship to Ishmael to anyone (yet, I suppose I should say, because I haven't read to the end!) because at least he is taking time to consider what the consequences might be. Whether he is considering consequences to Ishmael or to himself remains to be seen.
Hello! Well, I stopped to wait for everyone to catch up.... and now I'm way back at chapter 18! I completely lost steam! I will try to plow ahead in order to finish Ishmael with you, and be ready to begin the next book.
P.S. I've been reading Southworth's book The Hidden Hand (while I wait..ha). It is very good.
So, I have received our next book, Self Raised, with free shipping. Have you? :+) One of you asked me where you could get it with free shipping and all you have to do is click on the green linked book title. The Old Schoolhouse Store sells everything with free shipping!! Really, how do you beat that? The new book is a bit smaller than Ishmael, but it looks to be just as exciting, if not more so. :+)
"Miss Merlin's first entrance into society had been a great success; she had made a sensation."
The idea of "entrance into society" is such a strange one to me. Have any of you come from a background that included something like this? I know that in certain parts of the country, and the world, this is still done to some extent. I grew up in California where the only formal entrance into any sort of society was the prom. (And that was certainly disappointing!!) :+)
And here we meet with a Viscount--and a Hurstmonceux at that! Who is he and what part will he play in this story?
"The next morning Ishmael and Bee, the only hard workers in the family, were the first to make their appearance in the breakfast room." These two are inspriational to me. I know they are ficitonal characters, but there are people in real life who are so devoted. I know I have so much to learn - even from our fictional friends!
Jen shares:
These last chapters were very fun.The ball, the excitement of the city, meeting the young Viscount Vincent.My daughter Ryann calls him the Discount Vincent.What do you think of him?He certainly seems impressive.What do you think of this budding romance between the handsome Lord and Miss Claudia?I can’t help but feel deeply for Ishmael.Yes, he brought it upon himself by not keeping his heart guarded – but it is still a hard thing to go thru, and I could totally relate to his sleepless night, tossing and turning replaying the scene of his lady love and her young admirer at her grand party.
I think (unfortunately) many of us have had those crushing experiences where our love was not requited.It can feel deathly oppressive.I pray none of my children ever experience this, and I equally pray that they will not be the cause of it for another person (accidentally or otherwise!).
It is interesting to watch Claudia grow even more self-absorbed. Modest Bee could not even bring herself to read the superfluous flattery in the gossip column -- yet Claudia reveled in it. To what end will her vanity come?Do you think she is redeemable, or is she past hope? And what of darling Bee?I love this character.My son keeps saying he wants to marry Bee. Too bad she is a fictional character – or is she?Are any of you momsies raising up little Beatrices?I certainly hope so!
Kate again:
I agree with Jen! I was embarrassed for Claudia that she so reveled in her popularity. It seemed very high school to me! :+) Her self-absorbed behavior is really quite old, but I think we are going to have to deal with it for a while yet. I liked what Bee said to Claudia, "Yes, Claudia, I am jealous! not of you; but for you--for your delicacy and dignity." The write-up of Claudia pointed our many things about Claudia, but all were surface things, weren't they? Did you notice she responded on Mr. Middleton's comment about Claudia obtaining a title with this: "Until I get a more legitimate one." Legitimate title? Do you think she is after a title? "Claudia's pride and pleasure in her conquest were also undeniable; she took no pains to veil them."
At the ball the viscount notices the similarities in appearance of Mr. Brudenell and Ishmael. Ishmael has no knowledge of Mr. Brudenell at all, of course. I wonder if they will meet!
Huzzah for Ishmael for accomplishing his goal! He is now a member of the Washington bar! Good for him!!
"I do not know that I shall take the brief, sir." Here, at the beginning of his career, he is tempted, as Christ was, and yet he decides to be like Christ. He seeks to protect the widows and the afflicted! It was a very sweet and funny exchange he had with the wounded wife, wasn't it? Ah, to find such men in the world today! I know they exist - are you raising one of them?
So, for next week, please read what happens to our dear hero in Chapters 56-60.
Did you notice that the Visount realized that Claudia was in love with someone else, but he still pursued her? Do you think that he's just trying to figure her out, or is he serious? Relationships were contemplated with such worldly thinking then - does he want her money?
I have to say that I am feeling a little sorry for Claudia. She is forcing herself to choose between true happiness and the outside appearance of happiness. She must want a titled husband. She is so rich that she probably isn't after money. She has always made such a big deal about social position in relationships. Does she really think that marrying someone with a title is going to make her happy? I wonder what "happiness" means to her?
I felt sorry for Ishmael too. But even after observing Claudia and the Viscount, some of his first thoughts are about her when he decides to test for the Washington Bar. Do you think he is still sure that she won't marry someone she doesn't love? I'm surprised that he isn't doing more to overcome his feelings. He must still be blinded to her self-centeredness and self-serving ways.
I was so glad that Ishmael decided to start his career off with Godly integrity. That whole section would be great to read to our boys. Southworth did a great job showing how tempted Ishmael was to take the brief, especially believing that it might help him win Claudia sooner.
Actually, this chapter seems to be set up in direct contrast with the previous chapters about Claudia. Claudia makes a successful entrance into society, makes a "conquest," and is still unhappy and an emotional wreck inside. She is definitely achieving outward worldly success. Ishmael succeeds in becoming a member of the Washington Bar, undergoes temptation to make a different kind of conquest by taking the brief, and chooses righteousness over worldly success.
The glitz and glamour surrounding Claudia was fun to watch, although a bit too superficial for me. It was a day, it seemed, meant 'just for her'-just feeding into her superficial,selfish ways. I'm hoping to see Claudia grow up a little, it is sad to see how unhappy she will be on the inside while trying to pretend to be happy on the outside.
Yay for Ishmael for passing the bar! And his first case a noble one-did we expect anything less from him? I do like how Southworth shows us the temptation he goes through-it makes Ishmael seem more real-like he has temptations too-he doesn't just choose the right thing without a thought.
I would have to say my FAVORITE part in these chapters is when Ishmael was talking to the teacher-wife. The little girls in her class were so protective of her. It struck me as funny when they were arguing who would approach the 'mean man' and tell him to leave. Finally one of the girls musters up enough courage to go talk to him. I can just imagine her little face, all stern-telling Ishmael to leave their teacher alone. Ishmael with all his kindness, just simply tells her that he is there to help her teacher.
Now imagine her innocent little face when she goes back to the others, and announces, (I imagine with a shrug) 'He's good!" LOL....seems like this little girl is a good judge of character!
andijeane - I really liked your thoughts about the contrasting chapters. I had not thought about it that way.
At this point we don't know much about the viscount. It would not seem that someone who was titled like that would need the money, but title didn't always equate to money. Sometimes there was a lot of pretense! I am not sure what to think about the viscount, but Claudia's interest in him seems to be for name only. It is *really* hard to imagine giving one's whole life/self/fortune to a man one didn't love. I sure couldn't do it!
thisworldisnotmyhome - "I'm hoping to see Claudia grow up a little, it is sad to see how unhappy she will be on the inside while trying to pretend to be happy on the outside."
I agree on both counts. I am not sure we can expect her to grow up if she is only after title. I think she loves Ishmael in her condescending manner. Is it even possible for her to stop loving herself long enough to see what she may miss?
Your thought about her being unhappy struck me. I wonder if she thinks she will be happy? Does she really believe that? It made me a little sad for her too. Selfishness usually leads to sadness. I hope it will not for her.
Just reading about how Ishmael and Bee spend their days-- every minute with purpose-- that is how *I* need to be! It has been quite convicting. I do hope that I can be a real life example of hard work, dedication and integrity for my children!
I am still catching up on the reading but had a thought about Kate's comment regarding Claudia's selfishness. Kate, you said that you hope Claudia's selfishness doesn't lead to sadness which often happens. However, when a behavior has a negative consequence we are prompted to change. If she becomes unhappy from her selfishness, then she may grow to become unselfish. That is what I am hoping and waiting to see. I hope to see Claudia desire Christ and become more Christlike. No one is beyond redemption, as the Apostle Paul testifies.
By the way, even though I am terribly behind, I am enjoying this book and this club a lot. Thank you for your work, Jen and Kate. Thank you, too, for your encouragement as homeschool moms.
Well, I am back for a post! I’m not sure what happened to me—I was ahead in the book, then somehow, I got rather behind. Now, I am even-steven!
Sorry to hear about your kitty, Kate. She certainly was a pretty, little thing!
I really liked Kate’s comment of today’s “entrance into society”—the prom! My friend’s 16 year-old son just went to the prom. It was a rather odd thing to watch—everyone making such a big deal of these young kids going to the prom. I never thought of comparing it to the formal type of coming-out event of Claudia’s, but they certainly do have their similarities!
I truly love Bee’s character. In the beginning of this book, I thought Ishmael’s character was too good to be true, and his decisions often got on my nerves. However, I find Bee to be totally believable. I am trying to train my children to put their siblings’ needs above their own, which is what Bee always does. I would love my daughters to be as caring as she is!
I am also impressed with how Ishmael was able to stand up for what he truly believed was right and took on the case of the teacher-wife. I know he always stood up for what he believed—finding Mr. Middleton’s wallet and not taking the reward, etc. However, this time it just struck me as so real! I was also impressed that he could hold his own in explaining his decision to Judge Merlin, which certainly wasn’t easy.
Now, I need to admit that I am a little confused about the comments regarding Claudia. There has been a lot of reference to her state of “unhappiness.” Have I missed something? While I think Southworth did an excellent job describing Ishmael’s emotional struggle with Claudia, I can’t remember reading any details about Claudia’s struggle with having real, true feelings of love for Ishmael. I know that she was truly grateful for him saving her from the horse accident, but beyond that, from what I have read, it seems to me that she is more aggravated than anything that Ishmael has been placed in her life. She just doesn’t want to admit that he could actually become a respectable man in life. Could someone clue me in—what did I miss that makes everyone think that Claudia is fighting this deep emotional struggle regarding Ishmael?
And regarding the comments of selfish behavior leading to unhappiness, I totally agree with Jo’s comment that only if “a behavior has a negative consequence we are prompted to change.” From my experience in dealing with selfish people, I have come to the conclusion that they know what they are doing is selfish, they just don’t care.
I don't think Claudia realizes that her 'happiness' that she has is artificial, or superficial, at this point. I think she truly believes all these 'things' in her life will bring her true happiness. Although the moeny and social standings may bring her fleeting moments of happiness, none of this will bring her true joy-which is what Ishmael has. No matter what the situation, Ishmael always had joy-which is different from happiness. Happiness is an emotion, based on the situation, joy is a choice, no matter the situation.
BlessingsFromAbove - You asked about why we think Claudia has feelings for Ishmael. When he was recovering from his illness she could not "tear herself away" and her behavior was very much like that of a person who was in love with him. Even though she would not admit it, neither did she take herself away when she knew she really should have. She was encouraging his feelings while indulging her own. Southworth wrote something like that though I don't have the exact quote. Reuben also noticed her feelings towards Ishmael and commented on them to Hannah. I think that even Ishmael thinks she has feelings for him by a "thought" he has in the book--that he would eventually win her or something along those lines.
That she burst into tears upon leaving him was also pretty telling. She was trying her best to hide her real feelings because he was so below her (in her eyes).
thisworldisnotmyhome - "Happiness is an emotion, based on the situation, joy is a choice, no matter the situation." Absolutely! Great comments on Claudia's state of mind. I think you are right that "I think she truly believes all these 'things' in her life will bring her true happiness." I could not agree more. How do you think Southworth will deal with that?
How interesting that the Viscount noted the resemblance between Ishmael and Mr Brudenell! Vincent seems like an interesting character and it will be interesting to see how he features in the rest of the story.
Who else was horrified by the way the law treated mothers? I mean, I knew that that's basically the way it was, but to read it in this setting really hit me as to how unjust it really was. Good for Ishmael in refusing the husband's case and taking up the wife's cause instead. And I was so impressed by Bee's offer of funds to cover expenses. I do hope that Ishmael will now start to see in Bee someone more than just a dear sister. They both have high standards and the same honorable values in life - hard work, selfless service, integrity etc.
Welcome to HSB Literary Club. Please join us in reading Enoch Roden's Training by Hesba Stretton.
As Enoch's faith is tested, will he prove that his is no mere profession, but a real, living confidence in God's love and wisdom? Through severe trials, Enoch learns much about sound business principles, sacrifice, and trusting God. If he had only said, "I am working with God…" he would never have found the work wearisome, for of all grand, and comforting, and heart-refreshing thoughts in this world, to a Christian, the greatest is the thought that we are co-workers with God. Without a doubt, after reading this book, you'll walk away a better person than when you began.
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So we are getting close to the end of the book. Are you excited to see what happens? 
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"Miss Merlin's first entrance into society had been a great success; she had made a sensation." 
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