We would like to open this post up for discussion. We have led this discussion and the previous 4 books, and we want to hear what you have thought about as you read it.
What surprised you?
Or made you sad?
Or is something you agree or disagree with?
We can't wait to hear what you have to say so that we can discuss your thoughts with you!
Please post your thoughts about Chapters 10-14 here in the comments section.
We will be discussing Chapters 15-20 in the next discussion. Please see the Helps we have provided for your use in the way of Vocabulary lists and Scripture references!
You will find them in the category of: Enoch Roden's Training by Hesba Stretton
Back to normal?? What is that?? I was going to email you and see how it was going, but thought I would just put this up anyway. :) Hope you can get to it soon.
I hope you have a great weekend!
I know this is a few more chapters than we were originally discussing. We can even discuss them as we read them. :)
These posts are a living discussion which you may enter into at any time.
The current discussion will be continued in the very near future, as we are at the final chapters of Enoch Roden's Training. We have, however, found life to be upon each of us as a group and are looking forward to discussing chapters 17-20 in the near future!
In the meantime, please feel free to join our discussion and look over the Helps we have provided for your use in the way of Vocabulary lists and Scritpure references!
You will find them in the category of: Enoch Roden's Training by Hesba Stretton
Here is my discussion from Chapters 1-3, which was posted after the others...
by Jacque
I very much liked the intro of the characters in to the book. This again is going to be a book where the trials are experienced and brought before the LORD it seems.
Mr. Drury seems like a flighty man, but not in a bad way, just not bothered by the cares of the world. I think that is why it didn't bother him when Enoch said something about being a Missionary, but, rather, he directed him in the way he should think about getting there and what to do until he does.
I think that Susan was embarrassed, as if Enoch was not appreciative of Mr. Drury's noticing that he was interested in being a printer. Then, when Mr. Drury said that he could not help him become a Missionary and go to college, it may have seemed as if he thought that Enoch was fishing for a benefactor, which he likely was not, but it could have been taken that way. Perhaps she thought that in his youth he lacked the discretion to not say that in front of a man who would give his right arm to help people out. It was very kind of him to offer the job to him.
I think Mr. Drury's library sounds delightful also! books all over, olden books with leather covers; how quaint. However, knowing he has accumulated debt and seems to have trouble paying his normal bills, I wonder why he has so many books. Unfortunately, as Amanda said, it seems as though this has become a burden to his business, his home and his daughters.
I also think he is not doing as he should with Esther. It is not a bad thing for her to live through hardships. It is a bad thing for her to shoulder the entirety of the responsibility and stress of the money matters each month. This is something her father should and could be taking care of. He is allowing her to live in a bitter spirit, and that surely will not be good for either of them. It is almost as if she thinks of him as an aloof dreamer who is someone she has to make all of the decisions for and bail out of everything because he is unable. This will create a prideful spirit in her. I am afraid for her and what this may do to her spirit.
Poor Enoch, but he seems to handle it in a mature manner. This is something that will help him as he grows and goes out into the world and workforce. He got right back on the horse, and that was good for him. Mr. Drury handled it well, even though Esther had a different opinion.
I agree with Rachel (babymakers) that she needs to just let him handle it. Young ladies at this age can very well handle the responsibility, but that is not the issue here. The issue is that God has set the family up for a purpose and in an order, and that is not the order she is walking in. I do think it is her father's final decision though, and he should be ther one to put an end to it. He could if he wanted to. I think that he is a dreamer. And she is doing them no favors by being in charge.
I am sorry that she must give up her Grandmother's salver, but by doing so, she is allowing him to keep all of those books he might be forced to sell if she didn't. He certainly would not have allowed her to do so, had he known, and perhaps he would have stepped up to the plate and taken care of it. And, if not, so what? So they lose some things? I think that is what they need. I agree that she is to be praised for giving, but I don't think she did it with the right attitude. She was very prideful and arrogant about it. I did not like the way she talked down to Susan, either, when she went in and asked about Enoch's job and giving it to the other boy whose mother would have paid them for it.
She is being allowed to create more problems than they already have, imo.
Oblivious is a good word, Amanda. Esther is enabling him into oblivion, though. It will be interesting to see how this works out. It is not right, and there are a lot of things going on that will have to have an effect later on.
Rachel, I agree... "how young men USED to be"... and, we are training them up to know once again! PTL!
These are the Vocabulary words and Scripture References, along with other pertinent sayings and such for the first ten chapters of Enoch Roden's Training. If you would like a quick Bible reference site, I like to use Biblegateway.
Feel free to copy and print these off for use with your study of Enoch Roden's Training.
Chapter 1
Vocabulary:
A close: British, The narrow way or alley. Pronounced [klos, long o], as is close quarters.
Draught: British for draft
Elbow-chair: an arm-chair. A chair with arms to support the elbows.
Worriting: worrying; annoying
Save-all: a receptacle for catching the waste products of a process for further use in manufacture.
Tracts: leaflets or pamphlets containing a religious appeal or declaration.
The settle: a long wooden bench with a high back that may include storage space beneath the seat.
Per-adventure: perhaps
Bible References:
Isaiah 27:8
Luke 12:22, 24, 27
2 Corinthians 8:21
Other sayings:
“God helps them that helps themselves.”: Susan asked if the Bible said this, and she is referring to Sophocles, who said, “Heaven ne’er helps the men who will not act.” And George Herbert, who said: “Help thyself, and God will help thee.”
Chapter 2
Vocabulary:
Cosy: cozy
Premium: payment for training in a trade or profession
Lady-day: (chiefly British) A festival celebrated on March 25th, which commemorates the Annunciation . Regarded as the new day of a quarter, when quarterly payments are due.
Compositors: One that sets written material into type; a typesetter
Mechanics’ Institute: founded in 1825 by George Birkbeck, a Scottish doctor. Free lectures and demonstrations were made available to working men so that they could gain skills and knowledge.
Parish: a parish is a local church but the Dr. is probably referring to the parish’s workhouse.
Embrocating: liniment; a lotion applied to the skin to relieve pain and inflammation.
Chapter 8
Vocabulary: Gruel: thin porridge, made by boiling oatmeal or cornmeal in water.
Cruse: earthenware jar or pot.
Privations: lack of the basic necessities or comforts of life.
Dregs: the sediment or residue that settles at the bottom of a liquid.
Bible References:
Revelation 7:16
Psalm 78:20
1Peter 2:21
Matthew 27:43
Job 13:15
John 18:11
Chapter 9 Bible References:
Ruth 2:12
James 5:11
Other sayings:
My God With Me poem by C.F. Zeller
My God with me in every place!
Firmly, does the promise stand,
On land or sea, with present grace
Still to aid us near at hand.
If you ask, "Who is with thee?"
God is here--my God with me!
No depth, nor prison, nor the grave,
Can exclude Him from His own;
His cheering presence still I have,
If in crowds or all alone.
In whatever state I be,
Everywhere is God with me!
My God for me! I dare to say--
God the portion of my soul!
Nor need I tremble in dismay
When around me troubles roll.
If you ask, "What comforts thee?"
It is this--God is for me!
Ah! faith has seen Him cradled lie,
Here on earth a weeping child;
Has seen Him for my vileness die--
He, the sinless, undefiled!
And thus I know it true to be,
God, my Saviour, is for me!
In life, in death, with God so near,
Every battle I shall win,
Shall boldly press through dangers here,
Triumph over every sin!
"What? you say, "a victor be?"
No, not I, but God in me!
from "Hymns from the Land of Luther"
Chapter 10
Vocabulary:
Relieving Officer: entering a workhouse was a voluntary decision, but an interview with the relieving officer was necessary to ensure that a person eligible for state help. Once approved, formal admission could be authorized by the Board of Guardians, who usually met once or twice a week.
Romantic: imaginative, but impractical, not based on fact.
Masters: the Master or Governor of the workhouse was responsible to the Board of Guardians, particularly for the money received and the manner in which it was spent. It was his job to feed and clothe and employ the inmates, to enforce the rules and to run the workhouse down to the smallest detail.
Hob: a shelf or projection at the back side of the fireplace used for keeping food and utensils warm.
As with all the Lamplighter Books we have read, Enoch Roden's Training has endearing characters.
Characters: Susan Roden: Enoch’s Mother Mother Roden: Enoch’s Grandmother Titus: Enoch’s older brother Enoch: Main character, young man, fourteen years of age, steady and solid-like. Mr. Drury: rich older gentleman who is fond of the Roden family and does for them as he can. Esther: Mr. Drury’s oldest daughter. She takes on a great more responsibility than she should. Lucy: Mr. Drury’s sweet, helpful youngest daughter
As Enoch's faith is tested, will he prove that his is no mere profession, but a real, living confidence in God's love and wisdom? Through severe trials, Enoch learns much about sound business principles, sacrifice, and trusting God. If he had only said, "I am working with God…" he would never have found the work wearisome, for of all grand, and comforting, and heart-refreshing thoughts in this world, to a Christian, the greatest is the thought that we are co-workers with God. Without a doubt, after reading this book, you'll walk away a better person than when you began.
I am so sorry that it has taken me so long to get this up! I haven't had time to read it much less get my discussion up! :( But I finally secluded myself and sat down and read it and wrote this out! I am looking forward to reading your discussions!
Chapter 7: Lucy's New Home
I am not happy that Esther and Lucy cannot be together! What would be so hard about Esther taking Lucy with her or Esther going to the Roden's? I would much rather them be together!
I am so sad for Miss Esther! I am sad that she is so rebellious and so hurt! From my experiences, when you are hurt like Esther has been, you rebel and you just don't care, because it hurts so bad and you don't want to hurt! I am so sad for her!
Its really great that Lucy and Enoch can be friends! I am glad that Lucy is still helping him with school. She could totally be depressed and sullen, but instead she is pretty much the same to him and that is really good for them both.
It is really nice to read about how their life is and what each person is doing. I am glad that Lucy fits in so snuggly with the family. I am sad for Susan though. I am sure she worries all the time about Titus and prays for him too!
I am really happy that everyone is treating Lucy so wonderfullly. Back then, if your father went down the way Mr. Drury did, then you were shunned usually and outcast. It is really great to see they didn't do that!
I am also glad that Lucy isn't a burden to Susan. I didn't think she would be, but I also didn't think about how much of an impact she would have on the community! It is so fun to see what Enoch and Lucy do together. I think my favorite is of them going into the church to hear the organ play the hymns! How sweet!
OH MY! I cannot believe what has happened to Susan! I am glad though that she is still alive and was not killed! I don't think I could finish the book, if she had died too! Poor Enoch now bears the weight of providing for his whole family! I am sure he will be able to do it, but what a task!
I am very glad to know that the neighbors are helping Lucy so much with all the housework. It is comforting to know that the neighbors truly care for them!
I can really relate with Enoch and him having a hard time understanding why God is not letting him find a job and encounter such hard times! I have been really struggling with why God permits the wicked to prosper. I just have to keep reminding myself that His timing is the best and that things will work out for His glory when I let Him be in control!
I am really worried about Enoch because I have learned when you have the mindset that when you ask God about something and He doesn't answer in your time, you start to believe that He doesn't care about you and you have a hard time believing in Him. Knowing Titus' behavior and thoughts, and knowing that Enoch is Titus' brother is really worrisome. I also don't like the last line of this chapter! :(
Chapter 8: Enoch's Challenge
I am so sorry for the Roden's! It must be so difficult and trying. I feel especially bad for Enoch because he is the man and is supposed to be able to provide for his family and he just can't! It must be so hard on him to know that his family is struggling and it rests all on him! It is so sad to see where Enoch has come to in his faith and trust. I truly pity him. How often do we fail the test that God has placed for us. We can't see the test while we are in it, but coming out of and failing and knowing and understanding it, is so hard! I hope he turns around before its too late! It is funny how we get into things we are reading and watching so much, because I was just praying for Enoch as I read about his waining faith. Praying and hoping that he would read something or think of something that just popped a light bulb on and he would just repent of his doubt and become faithful again!
I am sad that Granny has decided to go to the parish. I am sure that everyone will miss her and would rather have her there. I know they will feel lost without her! I hope there is some other way besides Granny having to leave them.
Chapter 9: Preparing For The Workhouse
How sad for Susan! To part with her companion of so long. Something just caught me as I read what Granny just said:"Ah Susan, it 'ud be a wonderful change to go straight to heaven out of the workhouse." The workhouse where the poor and needy are and the unsaved. She can go straight from the sinners of whom may benefit and become a believer to heaven where she can gain her reward! What an awesome thought and hope!
I am sure that Susan just feels so bad that her mother has to leave them. I am sure she is just so broken up about it! Poor woman!
I am so sad for Enoch! This is just another thing he has to bear because he cannot provide for his family! I can really understand his rebellion and his disbelief! Gosh, I just feel so bad for him!
What a comfort Lucy is! To be so selfless and offer to go to the workhouse herself! Then to sing that beautiful hymn to Granny as she is on her way to the workhouse! What a doll she is!
This week has had many joyous times, sad times, and learning times! I wonder what next week holds!
You can post your discussions on your blog or in the comment section below! :) Go ahead and read the next three chapters and I will try to have my discussion done for Friday! :) The Daily Planet
Wow, sorry it took me so long to comment on this one!
It doesn't seem like it can get much worse for them. Cold, hungry, no hope besides God, failing health. Oh my....
I can say that this book makes me realize how blessed we are! It also makes me realize how messed up our welfare system is. The government needs to read this book and reinstate poor houses! Speaking of poor houses, it seems like that would actually be a better place for granny. At least she won't go hungry and cold there. It seems odd that she would even consider staying at the house especially since she knows that as soon as things are back in order they will come get her.
The outlooks and dependence on God throughout this story are wonderful. I am actually really going through Luke 12 with my children now because of this book. I think we might memorize that verse. Savannah (aka country girl) looked up a farthing. It is not very much money but it might of been a long time ago. Who knows, with a depression coming we might need these verses.
I think that these chapters are really sad. I couldn't beleive that Granny went to the poor house! She is so humble. Enoch has such a weight from taking responsibility for the family. I hope that reading gets happier!
This week just got away from me and since Mama and Dad went to seem Fireproof yesterday, I wasn't able to get my discussion up even though I had it written out! So today I am sharing my discussion... Are you ready? :)
Chapter 4: Debt and Dishonor
It is so encouraging to read how Enoch is enjoying his work. Many boys didn't and still don't now. I am sure if I was working with books and such all the time I would be really happy too!
I think it is so wonderful that Esther takes such an interest in Enoch and his job and how she gives him tasks she knows he would like. Lucy is such a great friend! I think the girls consider Enoch their brother and are making him a part of the family. I think its great!
Lucy's study sounds so quaintly beautiful! I can just picture Enoch and Lucy sitting at the table and Lucy teaching Enoch his Latin.
It is so sad that now Mr. Drury has come to realize that he was not faithful in having done everything he was supposed to to pay his debts. It is sad and hard when we find ourselves in that position.
It is very upsetting that the people who bought and worked at the Shawbury News would talk so rudely of their employer. When something like that happens is when we find out who our real friends are!
Poor Lucy! All I can say is how sorry I am for Lucy and especially Esther who tried so hard to make sure they didn't go under. I wonder what Lucy is going to do. If I know her character and her sister's, I would assume she is going to sell her treasures to get the money! It makes me wonder why they hadn't already sold some books to pay off the debts in the first place.
Of course! Sweet Lucy would give up everything she owned to help her father! What selflessness! It makes me think if I would be able to give up everything I owned for someone else...makes you ponder and evaluate.
I could never understand why ladies fainted. Of course, I guess it is quite understandable in Lucy's situation, but if someone told me that Dad was going to be taken to jail, I would cry and scream and be angry, not faint! :P I am glad that Susan is able to be a mother to Esther and Lucy and comfort them.
Chapter 5: Farewell
It is wonderful that Enoch prays so hard for Lucy! I am really glad that prayer is so important to him. What a sweet reminder the sparrows bring! Isn't it great how God uses the smallest things to remind us of His blessings, promises, and Word?
I am very glad to see that Brook and the others really do care for Mr. Drury. With what they said and did last chapter I was very upset!
Mr. Drury gave such a wonderful and powerful speech to everyone. I am sorry he had to learn it the way he did though. I do hope that I can learn something from it and always remember it!
I am so happy to see what Brook said to Mr. Drury. I do believe he means what he said and I hope they will actually take what he said to heart and remember the lesson of it!
I am relieved to see that Esther saw her faults too and is not so angry anymore! She could have really been indignant and rude to her father. Instead she was humble and loving!
I do hope Mr. Drury is ok. It worries me that he is rubbing his chest. With everything going on, I am sure he has had a lot of stress!
I am very sad for Mr. Drury and I can't imagine what he is going through knowing that he has failed his daughters in being their provider.
OH MY GOODNESS! I can't believe he died! I am in shock! How horrible! Now not only are the girls penniless, but now fatherless. **CRYING**
Chapter 6: Titus Runs Away To Sea
Susan is so sweet and has a great plan. I just wish that Esther and Lucy won't have to be separated!
Titus is very bitter. I wish we knew more about him and why he is the way he is.
I feel very sorry for Susan. I hope that Titus remains safe, but I have learned when we leave the place where God has put us, we leave the protection that God has placed for us and we take ourselves out of His protection and very bad things can happen!
This week has held so many sad things in it, I hope next week will be better! You can post your discussions on your blog or in the comment section below! :)
Prayers and Blessings, The Daily Planet
We have been reading it outloud. My children are really enjoying it and are so disappointed when I put it down. Even my one son who didn't want to be a member of this club now wants in on the discussions which makes it even more enjoyable for me.
I don't see how Mr. Drury didn't see this situation coming and I don't believe that Esther helped the situation any. If she wouldn't of sold things for money before to take care of dad's problem then he would have it to sell now and make part of the money back. And talk about lack of communication! If I was selling my stuff to pay for my husband's debt I would let him know where the money came from! I think this part of the book is at least mildly unrealistic because I don't know any families, even in the worst relationships, that wouldn't of communicated part of this before now.
So, anyhow, Mr. Drury's speech and prayer did give me more respect for the character because he sees his faults, deals with them, and confesses them all with a right attitude. How many times are we, as Christians, confronted with something we are doing wrong and we get angry.
When he died we were really surprised! I thought it was doubly sad that the sisters were going to be separating....
I also wish I knew more about the character of Titus. Hopefully there will be more in the future to tell us more about him. I can say, even though it is hard because I am a mother, that if Titus' interests were in sea he should of been encouraged to do something with it. Maybe she could of encouraged it earlier and redirected it into another occupation, such as fishing. I don't think it is EVER good to hold a boy turning into a man back from his desired interests unless they are unholy. Him running off is not an answer to his frustrations and he handles himself 100% wrong. A mother's worst nightmare... or at least one of them!
The children and I were discussing the characters and we seem to agree that Titus doesn't act as a Christian... maybe he will get saved later in the book. Although, I am sure that we can't know a person's heart, many times we can have a reasonable assumption of what lies in the heart from their actions.
Those three chapters are so sad!! I could not believe that Mr. Drury died!!!! I feel so bad for Esther and Lucy. I think that Susan is really nice to take care of Lucy. I don't like Titus's attitude. I felt so bad for Susan!!!! I am really anxious to find out what will happen to Susan, Granny, Enoch and Lucy! Can I read the next three chapters? Pretty Please??
I do think that the whole situation is kinda unrealistic, because it is really hard to believe that Mr. Drury just thought the money dropped into their lives.
Why do you think he was so oblivious to their money problems? It is really hard to imagine for me.
Like I said, if I had been Esther I would have saved the money that was left from paying what needed to be so that we would have money next time.
Thanks for your discussion. I enjoyed reading it!
Miss Amanda
http://superangelsblog.com
Edited by SuperAngel on Sunday, September 28, 2008 at 1:54 PM
by Miss Amanda
From just reading the first three chapters, I can tell that this book is going to be very beneficial in my life to read! Let's get discussing!
Chapter 1: Enoch's Ambition
I really enjoyed reading about the setting of Hills Close. Very old English setting! I really liked Old Mrs. Roden, Susan, and Mr. Drury's talk on one of my favorite passages of the Bible: Matthew 6. How often do we forget to not worry about our problems when life throws so many our way. From reading that chapter, I have tried so many times to not worry about the everyday problems that are in my life.
I don't understand why Susan was upset when Enoch said he wanted to be a missionary. He said that after that he wanted to be a printer, and Mr. Drury seems like the kind of man that would think that right and not take offense at it. I just don't know why Susan was upset by it. Chapter 2: First Day of Apprenticeship
Mr. Drury's library sounds absolutely wonderful! I would love to go there! Old, beautiful books coming out of the woodwork sounds like a delightful place to live! :)
As I read about the accumulating debts Mr. Drury has from continuing to order book, and not selling them, I started to think about how many times we buy things we don't really need, but buy anyway putting us in some kind of bind. I hope I don't ever do that. It will be a burden on my family and will not honor God if I do. Speaking of burdens, it seems that Esther feels most of their burden and that is something that a 17yo shouldn't have to worry about!
I am excited for Enoch as he starts his first day of work! I hope this will be a great and profitable day!
OH NO! Poor Enoch! I am sure his little heart fell to his shoes when he slipped and dropped the advertisements! Hardy should have been the one going backwards up the stairs being less green than Enoch.
What a sweetie Little Lucy is! To encourage and want to help Enoch is so wonderful! I am sure his head was spinning when she told him she would teach him Latin!
Whoever put up those blank papers with "ENOCH RODEN'S PIE" was very wrong. I mean, if Mr. Drury said it was ok, then no one should have felt it was their place to admonish and humiliate him.
Chapter 3: Esther's Silver Salver
I wholeheartedly agree with Mr. Drury about trusting in the Lord to provide for everything, but He also wants us to be good stewards with what we have and he wants us to be faithful with it too. I don't think that Mr. Drury is doing everything he should with his finances and it has become a huge burden on Esther!
How sad that Esther must give up her grandmother's silver salver! The one last thing of her own and she gives it up to help her father! That is the perfect example of a daughter!
What a wonderfully great thing that Enoch and Susan tried to do to save Esther from having to get rid of her salver! Sometimes what we think is right may be, although it may not be what God has planned.
I am glad that Esther was able to find joy in giving her father the money from her salver. I have found that most times when we give up what we really want in order to help someone else, we find true joy and happiness.
I do, however, think that Mr. Drury is very oblivious! He does not even ask his daughter how she came into the money to pay for their bills. I don't think that is right since he is her father.
If I had been Esther I would have given Mr. Drury just the amount that he needed to pay rent and saved the rest for the next time they would have to pay their bills.
Well I look forward to reading your discussions and also to next week's chapters to find out how everything will work out! You can post your discussions on your blog or in the comment section below! :) The Daily Planet
by Jacque
I very much liked the intro of the characters in to the book. This again is going to be a book where the trials are experienced and brought before the LORD it seems.
Mr. Drury seems like a flighty man, but not in a bad way, just not bothered by the cares of the world. I think that is why it didn't bother him when Enoch said something about being a Missionary, but, rather, he directed him in the way he should think about getting there and what to do until he does.
I think that Susan was embarrassed, as if Enoch was not appreciative of Mr. Drury's noticing that he was interested in being a printer. Then, when Mr. Drury said that he could not help him become a Missionary and go to college, it may have seemed as if he thought that Enoch was fishing for a benefactor, which he likely was not, but it could have been taken that way. Perhaps she thought that in his youth he lacked the discretion to not say that in front of a man who would give his right arm to help people out. It was very kind of him to offer the job to him.
I think Mr. Drury's library sounds delightful also! books all over, olden books with leather covers; how quaint. However, knowing he has accumulated debt and seems to have trouble paying his normal bills, I wonder why he has so many books. Unfortunately, as Amanda said, it seems as though this has become a burden to his business, his home and his daughters.
I also think he is not doing as he should with Esther. It is not a bad thing for her to live through hardships. It is a bad thing for her to shoulder the entirety of the responsibility and stress of the money matters each month. This is something her father should and could be taking care of. He is allowing her to live in a bitter spirit, and that surely will not be good for either of them. It is almost as if she thinks of him as an aloof dreamer who is someone she has to make all of the decisions for and bail out of everything because he is unable. This will create a prideful spirit in her. I am afraid for her and what this may do to her spirit.
Poor Enoch, but he seems to handle it in a mature manner. This is something that will help him as he grows and goes out into the world and workforce. He got right back on the horse, and that was good for him. Mr. Drury handled it well, even though Esther had a different opinion.
I agree with Rachel (babymakers) that she needs to just let him handle it. Young ladies at this age can very well handle the responsibility, but that is not the issue here. The issue is that God has set the family up for a purpose and in an order, and that is not the order she is walking in. I do think it is her father's final decision though, and he should be ther one to put an end to it. He could if he wanted to. I think that he is a dreamer. And she is doing them no favors by being in charge.
I am sorry that she must give up her Grandmother's salver, but by doing so, she is allowing him to keep all of those books he might be forced to sell if she didn't. He certainly would not have allowed her to do so, had he known, and perhaps he would have stepped up to the plate and taken care of it. And, if not, so what? So they lose some things? I think that is what they need. I agree that she is to be praised for giving, but I don't think she did it with the right attitude. She was very prideful and arrogant about it. I did not like the way she talked down to Susan, either, when she went in and asked about Enoch's job and giving it to the other boy whose mother would have paid them for it.
She is being allowed to create more problems than they already have, imo.
Oblivious is a good word, Amanda. Esther is enabling him into oblivion, though. It will be interesting to see how this works out. It is not right, and there are a lot of things going on that will have to have an effect later on.
Rachel, I agree... "how young men USED to be"... and, we are training them up to know once again! PTL!
I love the way that they people all talk about God and give Him the glory. Bible verses being freely used is great and encouraging and helps me because as I ponder the chapter I just read I am also pondering what the Word of God really means and if these people are properly applying it.
I could see this happening in real life. I think that the young lady is wrong in the way that she takes their circumstances into her own hands. It is good she is trying to help but maybe a dad would be more thoughtful and do a better job if he didn't have a nice young lady solving all the problems. How many times would he have to get in trouble with someone HE owes money to before he would figure out to be a little more consciencess. Mr. Drury's faith is outstanding though. I wonder if someone like Esther is robbing herself and her father of a blessing by taking matters into her own hands. As an American I don't really get to see these kind of needs being met because our society is so rich. I don't know if I would be freaking out like her or calm like Mr. Drury.... I don't think I would want to find out either!
As for Enoch, it is interesting reading about how young men USED to be. Back in this day a boy knew how to work. Now days our boys are silly, lazy and nothing great is expected out of them. Our boys would be more manly and feel better if they had the fulfillment of work and learning like Enoch instead of being stuck in a schooldesk somewhere.
I can tell this is going to be a good book! I do agree with you about Mr Drury. He should ask about those things. I don't like how Esther sometimes talks to her father, but she has all that burden so I don't blame her. Lucy is really kind and loving, and she is going to teach Enoch Latin. I like the book so far, and I really want to read the next chapters! Granny is really nice, and it seems like she had a verse for everything, and I like that. She seems like a very godly woman. It does not say much though about Susan's other son, other than he loves ships and ship building.
As the new school year begins we are excited to begin a new book for the HSB Literary Club. We have been discussing some really amazing books through out this summer and spring. Great books like:
You can read our discussions on those books by clicking on them.
Our school has started yet; we wait til the day after Labor Day to start. Whether you have started already or not yet, we hope you will join us on September 3rd as we start our brand new book: Enoch Roden's Training by Hesba Stretton. Make sure to read New Read for more information on the new discussion book.
If you are going to join in the discussion of Enoch Roden's Training, be sure to sign the linky with your link, so we can contact you when a new discussion is up.
You can share your discussion on your blog, but make sure to leave a comment on the discussion here at HSB LC, so we can come visit and read your discussion. You can also leave your discussion here in the comment section of the discussion for that week.
We hope to read your discussion on Sept. 3rd! Looking forward to your participation for our discussion!
Prayers and Blessings, The Daily PlanetWalking Therein
We are going to start reading it aloud. Hopefully I can get a head start this time!!
I am also considering changing discussion days to Friday. What do you think??
Start on Sept. 5th??
HSB Literary Club,
Thanks for inviting me to join, however I probably will not be able to join in on this book. But I will be following along, since that will be easier for me to learn more about the book.
We got our book... when do we start? Trying to keep my kids and I from reading this book we just got is like trying to keep a dog out of the garbage can full of leftovers. We are trying to be good but it is just so hard. LOL
Yeah, we were waiting to make sure everyone had their book and ready to start! :)
We are going to be reading chapters 1-3 and discussing them on Friday!
See ya then!
Miss Amanda
http://superangelsblog.com
I these final chapters, we find that Kunerick arrived home and was greeted like a hero by his family, as it should be. His wife immediately tells him of the plight their son almost fell into, and he is moved to favor Rosa because of her act of bravery which has saved his son.
What a shock to me that he asked her which of his castles she would want - Linden or his. And, I believe he was equally shocked that she revealed herself as Rosa of Linden Castle. Kunerick began to deny her request and go against his own word, but now the time has come for Lady to tell that she has known for awhile who she is and has been waiting her husband's return.
She imparts to him Rosa's character and sacrifice to be near and possibly save her father, knowing she had taken on a lowly position and was treated quite ill by the others so that she could give comfort and possibly free her father by these sacrifices. She has noticed the Godly character in her and asks her husband to honor it and to "let humanity and mercy prevail".
I can't believe that Kunerick, after hearing all that his wife told him, about going to the castle at midnight hours, hearing the honor Edelbert had for him to the point that he would not accept release unless it came directly from Kunerick, that he would give Rosa Linden Castle and all the rest of the possessions, but he is so full of hatred and bitterness that he said Edelbert must stay in his prison.
What is in his craw that he cannot be thankful for the admonition of Edelbert to Rosa to do them good so that it led to the saving of his son? Even after his wife rightfully speaks that "justice demands" his release, and the two knights present urge him to consider Rosa and Edelbert's character as well as Kunerick's own word, he still refuses to let Edelbert free. I am astonished.
Apparently his son was too. I am surprised that he let him go. It was the right thing to do, but I a, still surprised. After his wife's encouragement for Edelbert's release, I can hardly believe his son's caused him to repent and/or change his mind.
I am surprised to hear his wife speak of praising the Lord's name, and also of Kunerick's repentant heart, though I am glad it was spoken of in the following chapter. I suppose that feelings of revenge and anger are so fickle and uncontrollable that at one moment one can be desperately angry and full of hate, and in the next, be understanding and repentant.
I do love the exclamation of his little boy, upon noticing his countenance after his conversion, that he now looked pleasant, "just like mother and Rosa", and that he made his exclamation of love too, because of his father's countenance. That speaks volumes of what a child sees and responds to as he sees it on his father's face - in his spirit.
"A thousand apparently trifling circumstances transpire, in the course of our lives, to which we pay little attention, but which are productive of the most important results, and determine the lots of hundreds of thousands of our race." - Pastor Norbert of life and Providence.
How precious is it that Hildegard returned to Rosa the wedding ring and necklace and jewels that she so vividly remembered her mother wearing! That her heart leaped inside with joyful memories of her sainted mother was a beautiful picture, in my mind. Hildegard's preservation of these precious jewels may have come as no surprise to Rosa, but what an unexpected blessing to her heart. I think it was the joy mixed with sadness that caused Rosa's comparison of the jewels to man's soul. And then, for Hildegard to put a more precious price on Rosa's tears and heart made the connection of the value of the spirit of man to the value of the love in a a heart being of more value than all the jewels.
Rosa followed through on her promise to intercede for Kunerick and ask her father's forgiveness of his great injustices to him, to which her father, of course, replied that he had already forgiven him. What a surprise ending that Edelbert and Rosa will gain back their beautiful Linden Castle and also put the hatred and evil of the past behind them.
"I am convinced that anger and hatred proceed from, and are the offspring of hell, but love and friendship are plants of heavenly growth." - Kunerick, at the feast, celebrating Edelbert's release.
Rosa then gets to make amends to the steward's wife, letting her know that there are no hard feelings, but also to encourage her. Speaking of the steward's wife's temper, Rosa says,
"If you could but overcome this, and learn to govern yourself,
no one would have any just cause to complain of you."
She did not leave it there, either. She went on to tell her that she cannot change this temper of her own doing, but only by the Lord's assistance. Oh what words of wisdom for anyone!
Rosa stands by her piety, continuing to bless and praise God for His Hand of Providence throughout the entire situation and restoration of her father. She has friendships now that she could have never dreamed of in the collier's family and Kunerick and his wife. God has sustained her throughout a trial that was considered a horrible tragedy, He has taken what was meant for evil, and saved many and blessed them also.
The final thought is of the blessing of God passed from father and mother to child and back again in the commandment of filial love,
"Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth." - Ephesians 6:1-3, The Holy Bible
So how have you enjoyed reading about Rosa? This week we found out how courageous and lovely Rosa is as she turns the other cheek!
CHAPTER 14:Rosa's Noble Deed
I just loved the little description of the well in the center of the garden. I would love to have one of those at my house. Since they spent so much detail explaining about the well, you have to know something is going to happen.
Didn't you just know that one of Kunerick's children were going to fall in? It is inevitable! Rosa has a wonderful sense of courage. I loved it that in a difficult situation, Rosa can keep her wits about her and use them to solve the situation. That is something I would do.
I wonder if Rosa understands the depth of what she did? She risked her life for the child of her cruelest enemy.
CHAPTER 15:Rosa's Noble and Generous Spirit
The Lady says something that our family has been learning: "Your disobedience almost cost you your life." We have been repeating that a lot lately because Caleb, who is 3, is always getting into something and a lot of times its things that can harm him. His disobedience could potentially cost him his life.
Rosa displays so much wisdom in her speech on Theklas behalf. How many times have I prayed to God for something and received an answer, only to turn around and not show the same to another!
CHAPTER 16:Rosa Is Discovered
I have been wondering when someone is going to realize that Rosa's demeanor, speech and countenance was not that of a collier's daughter. The Lady is very kind to keep Rosa's and Edelbert's secret and trying to figure out how to free them.
I wonder how she is going to convince Kunerick to release them.
I would love to read what you thought of this week's chapters. You can post your discussion in the comment section or on your blog and leave us a link, so we can visit and read!
I look forward to reading your discussions and make sure to come back next week as we end our discussion of Rosa of Linden Castle!
Welcome to HSB Literary Club. Please join us in reading Enoch Roden's Training by Hesba Stretton.
As Enoch's faith is tested, will he prove that his is no mere profession, but a real, living confidence in God's love and wisdom? Through severe trials, Enoch learns much about sound business principles, sacrifice, and trusting God. If he had only said, "I am working with God…" he would never have found the work wearisome, for of all grand, and comforting, and heart-refreshing thoughts in this world, to a Christian, the greatest is the thought that we are co-workers with God. Without a doubt, after reading this book, you'll walk away a better person than when you began.
To get started, click on the book icon and get yours ordered today!
We would like to open this post up for discussion. We have led this discussion and the previous 4 books, and we want to hear what you have thought about as you read it. 
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Posted by JacqueDixonSoulRestES
I also think he is not doing as he should with Esther. It is not a bad thing for her to live through hardships. It is a bad thing for her to shoulder the entirety of the responsibility and stress of the money matters each month. This is something her father should and could be taking care of. He is allowing her to live in a bitter spirit, and that surely will not be good for either of them. It is almost as if she thinks of him as an aloof dreamer who is someone she has to make all of the decisions for and bail out of everything because he is unable. This will create a prideful spirit in her. I am afraid for her and what this may do to her spirit.
Susan Roden: Enoch’s Mother
Its really great that Lucy and Enoch can be friends! I am glad that Lucy is still helping him with school. She could totally be depressed and sullen, but instead she is pretty much the same to him and that is really good for them both.
It is so sad to see where Enoch has come to in his faith and trust. I truly pity him. How often do we fail the test that God has placed for us. We can't see the test while we are in it, but coming out of and failing and knowing and understanding it, is so hard! I hope he turns around before its too late! It is funny how we get into things we are reading and watching so much, because I was just praying for Enoch as I read about his waining faith. Praying and hoping that he would read something or think of something that just popped a light bulb on and he would just repent of his doubt and become faithful again!
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She imparts to him Rosa's character and sacrifice to be near and possibly save her father, knowing she had taken on a lowly position and was treated quite ill by the others so that she could give comfort and possibly free her father by these sacrifices. She has noticed the Godly character in her and asks her husband to honor it and to "let humanity and mercy prevail".
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