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Posted by TLFilly

Doing things in the name of Jesus, but not knowing Him personally. Satan has a counterfeit for everything that Jesus does. Many "religious" people do not know God personally. Even in Jesus' day, the religious Pharisees were so stuck on their traditions and religious rules that they could not recognize nor accept Jesus Christ as the Son of God, the Saviour of the world.

People DO many good and religious things, but that does not make them God's child. I am sure of my salvation, but even I have done many "works" for Christ in my own fleshly power and in my own way. Just because it is "good" does not mean it is of God.

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1. Do you think you could die to defend your house from burglars? Your country from terrorists? Do you think it's reasonable for the Christian pop culture to assume that because someone died for a cherished belief about God, they must have gone to heaven?

Honestly? I don't know that I could die to defend my home from burglars or my country from terrorists. I'm not all that brave, really. But the real question... I don't think we can assume that just because someone has visible works that they are saved. Many unsaved do good works. (Matt. 7:22) Again, the theme of balance comes into play. The Bible advocates a balance of works and faith. There are a lot of scripture dealing with this topic from both negative and positive viewpoints but I think one of the strongest and most compelling of these is James 2:14-26 which reads:

Jam 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jam 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jam 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.
Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jam 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jam 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jam 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Some other places that deal with this issue are: the books of Matthew (ch.7, 11, 13, 16, 23), John (ch.5, 7, 8, 9), Romans (ch.3, 4, 9, 11), Acts 9:36, 2 Cor. 11:15, Eph. 2:8-10, 1 Tim. 6:17-19, 2 Tim. 1:9 and 3:17, Titus 2:7-15 and 3:5-14, Heb. (1:10, 4:4-10, 6:1, 9:14, 10:24), 2 Pet. 3:10, and of course, Rev. ch.2-3. It's quite interesting.

2. Do you believe, based on the passage and the points that Edwards makes, that things like speaking in tongues, doing things in the name of Jesus, or performing miraculous healings are proof that a person is a Christian?

No, based on the above scriptures.

3. Do you believe unsaved people can speak in tongues?

I sure do and I believe they can lead people astray and cause Christians to look foolish, losing credibility with the unsaved. While Christians shouldn't rely on the world, if we are to see men saved, we need to be seen as legitimate and following after God. Our faith needs to be a sensible one that has answers for the general public. I wouldn't say diffinitively who does or doesn't speak legitimate tongues but I believe that some I've heard may not have been from God. I'd love to see more following of the guidelines from the Bible placed actively in the local church.

Dee..

Edited by happyhearts on Oct. 17, 2006 at 11:24 AM

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Posted by Bob in SK

“1. More and more commonly, it seems… Do you think you could die to defend your house from burglars? Your country from terrorists? Do you think it's reasonable for the Christian pop culture to assume that because someone died for a cherished belief about God, they must have gone to heaven?”

Great question! I love this question for several reasons;
1st; the assumption of many believers to be better, greater, or further along in their walk are putting Christianity the context of an achievement based faith. This is so wrong on so many levels, like the fact that the only benchmark for Christianity we have is Jesus, and how arrogant is it to say you are closer to “Christlikeness” than any other sinner? Isn’t that a sin that directly refutes the very claim? It is these people that have stopped learning from all Christians, and no matter how “new” a Christian I believe we can learn something from them. When we start to look down on other Christians as “lesser” or “not as far along”, we have created an elitist attitude of self righteousness which we should all see as sinful.
2nd; The Bible specifically says in Matthew 7; 21 that even some that believe they will be in heaven because of their works will not be there due to the intent of the heart (paraphrased). Outward profession of religion is not enough; we have to back our words with the aforementioned attitude “charity”. There are too many out there that stick to their church groups and look down on the secular world, but I would admonish them as elitist who instead of trying to bring sinners back to Christ are sitting in judgment that is not theirs to pass (and warn them that they will be judged for their sins as well and should be careful about Christian arrogance. Remember; “There but for the grace of God go I”.)
3rd; Not only do I believe that some who profess to be Christians will not be in heaven, I also believe that our salvation is tenuous and can be lost without conscious and ongoing repentance, reflection and adjustments of our sinful acts. (What I’m saying here is that there is no Biblical proof for the “once saved always saved” doctrine, and when I looked into it some time ago the evidence went against that belief.)
4th; I think the question of dying for what you believe is really a non issue, because almost anyone could die for something the believed in strongly enough. A better question might be “Could you die for someone you don’t like, or an enemy?” That would be a true test of the attitude of charity as it is presented in the Bible. Christian pop culture ( I like that term by the way) is more about making the people left here on earth feel less pain at loss by saying “oh they have gone to a better place”. No one can know another persons status with God, beliefs or even if they were really a Christian, this is because people hide their true sin for the sake of appearance instead of dealing with it in an open and honest manner. Do I think everyone that appeared to be Christian will be in heaven? No!


“2. Do you believe, based on the passage and the points that Edwards makes, that things like speaking in tongues, doing things in the name of Jesus, or performing miraculous healings are proof that a person is a Christian?”

This is simple, just look at Matt 7:21. It’s pretty clear that our hearts need to be right with God and not just our words and deeds. (Quite the contrast to the last comment huh? lol)

3. Do you believe unsaved people can speak in tongues?

Definitely I believe this, what better way to confuse or deceive people (both believers and non believers)?


Sorry about the longwindedness.
Bob

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